Welcome to the home site for LLAMAS email list! Please bring an open heart.        If you are thinking of buying llamas, please read Responsible Buying. The folks on the list can help you with questions, but the responsibility for a new owner is to do your homework.        LLAMAS is an email discussion list about llamas for those that already own llamas, or those interested in learning about llamas. Actually, all lamas, like alpacas, guanacos and camels too! We will discuss all aspects of lamas and their care as *companion* animals. If you are curious about llamas we hope whatever you learn here helps you decide if llamas are right for you. This is not the place for campaigning for animal rights or debating the ethics of maintaining llamas.         I'm Chelle and I'm the list owner. The cost for this list is covered by donation, so there is no fee to be a member. It was originally funded by a few llama owners. Some of us had been together on different lists for years and this list was created to be a gentler, more moderated list, than some of the others. Our first post was April 20, 1999 and we've been going strong and growing every since.        If you know a lot about llamas, or nothing at all, we'll welcome you here. If you're new to llamas we'll try to answer your questions to the best of our abilities. We believe the only "dumb" question is the one that goes unasked. Sometimes folks who are completely new to llamas come up with new ideas that might solve problems that have been plaguing llama owners for years.        Do not be surprised to find that we have MANY different ways of doing the same thing. Many different things work differently in different parts of the country (or world) and we've found that more than one way usually works just fine for most things in life. HOWEVER, I am strongly opposed to certain practices. Since there is no shortage of llamas, I believe breeding should be done discriminately. (We have rescues going on almost daily of unwanted animals.) I don't believe in breeding yearling females, I think they need time to mature both physically and emotionally. I think llamas deserve good homes and don't agree with breeding a LOT of llamas and dumping those that can't be placed where they will end up at meat markets or as tiger food on game farms. So responsible breeding is important to me (and many others on this list). I believe llamas sold as guardians should be *mature* gelded males or females marketed under realistic terms - llamas don't eat cougars and bear, llamas are prey animals. (Read some of the very sad results that misinformation can create here.) Even IF your situation is one that is positive for a llama, not all mature llamas are suitable as guardians. Just because a llama is unhandleable or untrained for anything else, it does not mean it is a good guardian prospect. Dogs are the #1 predatory killer of llamas! For further help see A Message To Dog Owners. All guardian llamas need regular vet care and maintenance (worming, toenail trimming, shearing or brushing, etc.) and need to be trained and managable. No cria (baby llama or alpaca) should be pulled from it's dam and bottled in order to make a "cute pet". This is a disgusting practice employed by people out to make a quick buck. Llamas are herd animals and need to learn proper lama behavior from the herd. They'll be as friendly as they should be raised like llamas/alpacas. Severe personality/behavior syndromes/disorders (that can be dangerous) commonly develop in bottle fed crias, or in lone youngsters, raised away from a herd. (Read the behavior info here for further understanding.) The problems created by this unethical practice are not something that someone brand new to llamas should be trying to deal with. It may not take a village to raise a human, but it *does* take a herd to raise a NORMAL cria. This is how they learn what is normal, acceptable behavior. Horses are much bigger than llamas and alpacas, and are also herd animals. Do you see ethical horse breeders ripping foals away from from dams to make them friendly? Of course not! Training is the key. There is just no excuse in the world for PURPOSELY creating a bottle baby.        So if any of the above are part of your management practices you will *not* find this a list you'll enjoy, in fact I'll boot you off the list if you try to promote these things. I spend hours of my time running the list and I collect no money for that. I'm not willing to put in my time listening to people advise new folks of things I consider very negative. This is but one email list. It is not the "Voice of the Llama Industry". For those that want to engage in the above practices, there are other lists.        We see our llamas as precious and beloved animal spirits. Like most dog and horse lists, we view them as companion animals. We do NOT raise our llamas to eat and if you want to promote such a disgusting idea, join a different list - we'd sooner eat our dirty sox. First and foremost we care about the safety and welfare of our animals. Our hosting service does *not* allow "selling" on our list. So this is not the place to market your animals or goods. Expect to follow the rules, print them out if you need to. I expect you to join in and enjoy this special place and add something positive to it, instead of becoming a disruption. This is a private forum - think of it as being invited into my home. In fact, I'll let you move in and be "at home" with us! However, if you want to run riot, cause problems and then holler about freedom of speech - do it in your own home or another list, it won't be tolerated here. I am serious about the rules, so if you feel they are too confining, find a different list. If you do join and complain about the rules (yes, that seems nuts, but it has happened), you will be removed from this list with no warning or explanation.        With that out of the way, those very rules make it a safe and enjoyable list. You won't be belittled or attacked. Others may disagree with how you do or see things, but that is allowed here. I just expect folks to disagree without being disagreeable. We WANT to hear what works for you, what you've recently changed, the new pack trail you enjoyed, the new pattern you found for making that great llama fibre sweater, the way you worm that is effective for your llamas today.         Lastly, we are NOT EXPERTS. Even the veterinarians that may post here do so in a spirit of helping. YOU are responsible for the care of your own llamas. ALWAYS consult your own vet prior to making decisions concerning the health and care of your animals. We are here as support ONLY - to offer ideas and methods that have worked for us, that you MIGHT choose to discuss with your vet.         After reading the rules, I hope you subscribe. Really, we're a pretty caring bunch, I just have an aversion to bullies and complainers. Or those that join and think they will set the list rules. If you want to set the ruules for a list, put in the time and energy to start your own. Don't be scared off if you are new or shy, we'll help you feel right at home.        You need to take the time to learn how to change your own topics and settings. If you are not willing to do that, don't join. I do not have time to be a free private secretary for anyone. There is help with everything on our Site Map. If something is unclear AFTER you read the directions, the post questions AFTER YOU JOIN in LCAFE and ask for help.         Everyone is required to post at least once every 60 days, or the software will auto delete you. This keeps the list active and costs lower. So if you want to "lurk" forever, don't bother joining.        If you can't join us with your REAL name, don't bother to join. We are real people that aren't interested in a bunch of sick games. If you've already been kicked off the list, find a different list, not a fake name. You'll only prove how little integrity you have to a group of your peers by joining under a lie. Life Is Full Of Change        After 5½ years, I'm getting older and tired and have decided to "retire" this list. Our last posts will be in September of 2005. There's not much point in adding folks since I'm closing it down.        I have a page up that talks about Llama Myths and it's good to read before getting llamas. I'm also leaving Camelid Health, but I don't know how often I'll get around to updating it, but I'll try to remember sometimes. Happy trails & thanks for the memories! Hugz, Chelle http://www.rockisland.com/~newmoon/llamas/ Chelle Rogers © 1999-2005 All Rights Reserved